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The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
Welcome to the Grazing
Grass Podcast Episode 108
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
let me just tell you,
you're never done learning.
We aren't done learning.
You're listening to the Grazing Grass
Podcast, sharing information and stories
of grass based livestock production
utilizing regenerative practices.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
Cal: You're growing more than grass.
You're growing a healthier
ecosystem to help your cattle
thrive in their environment.
You're growing your livelihood by
increasing your carrying capacity
and reducing your operating costs.
You're growing stronger communities
and a legacy to last generations.
The grazing management
decisions you make today.
impact everything from the soil beneath
your feet to the community all around you.
That's why the Noble Research
Institute created their Essentials
of Regenerative Grazing course to
teach ranchers like you easy to follow
techniques to quickly assess your forage
production and infrastructure capacity.
In order to begin
grazing more efficiently.
Together, they can help you grow
not only a healthier operation,
but a legacy that lasts.
Learn more on their website at noble.
org slash grazing.
It's n o b l e dot org
forward slash grazing.
On today's episode we have Elizabeth
Stuart of Crossing Creeks Farm.
We talk about her journey, her family's
journey, into what they're doing now
with beef as well as other species.
I think it's a really interesting episode
I've talked before about gateway animals.
Well, beef cattle were
her gateway animals.
An interesting journey as to why
they got started in it, and then
how they're proceeding, and some
things they're doing to diversify.
their farm.
Really good listen today.
Before we talk to Elizabeth, on the
podcast next week, we have Charles Rola
from the Noble Research Institute to share
about his journey and things that the
Noble Research Institute are, are doing.
It's a great episode coming up.
Uh, 10 seconds about my farm.
Actually, we're going to talk about
the podcast a little bit more today.
I feel like lately all I've done is talk
Let's talk about the podcast, but we are
growing and we're trying some new things
so it's taking a little bit more time.
Um, I will talk about the
farm for just a moment.
We are dry.
We are needing rain and I hate to
say that because every farmer does,
but I know every time it rains or we
have a forecast and um, we miss it.
Grandpa always says we
can't afford to miss rain.
He has something else he says
about rain and um, what we need
each week on the land here, but.
I won't say it on the podcast.
Back to the podcast.
You'll notice towards the end, I
mentioned we have a bonus segment today
for today's episode, and that'll be
available over for Grazing Grass Insiders.
And if you're interested in that,
you can get there by going to the
website and clicking on Support
and Grazing Grass Insiders.
Also, if you're part of the
Grazing Grass community, I'll post
a link in there for it as well.
Enough about the podcast, my farm.
Let's talk to Elizabeth.
Track 1: elizabeth, we want to welcome
you to the Grazing Grass podcast.
I'm excited you're here today.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Thank you so much for having us.
We're excited to be here.
Track 1: To get started, Elizabeth,
can you tell us a little bit
about yourself and your operation?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Sure.
So we are a multi generational
farm, although we're not a We
don't have a long heritage.
We're new, still.
We have about 150 acres that
we farm together as a family.
My parents, so it's my parents, and
my husband and I, and our two sons
that actually started the farm We
technically started about 15 years ago
before we actually owned our property.
We've owned our farm just over
a decade now, about 11 years
and with a passion to
actually feed ourselves.
We were on a health journey for ourselves
and feeling like we needed to better
feed ourselves with better quality meat.
And so that led us into farming.
Just, oh, we'll just do it ourselves.
Track 1: Oh,
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
That's not always the right thing to think
or say, but that's where we went with.
And it's been quite
the journey ever since.
Track 1: Now, to get into that passion
to feed your old selves, did you all go
through a health scare, or how did you
come to that conclusion that you needed to
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
It actually was my parents.
They were, I'd say at the time,
goodness, they were probably in their
mid fifties and were beginning to
just look around and ask the question,
Why were, why was everyone in their
age range, aging prescriptions
and just dug into that and weren't
necessarily against prescriptions.
Just for like why am I feeling so bad?
That actually went.
Vegetarian first, because that
was what was told was healthy.
So they went vegetarian and within a
year for them felt sicker, felt worse
and was like, okay, clearly we need meat.
What's wrong with meat?
And really discovered that it was
the quality of meat and in that.
Was led somewhere to grass fed beef
Track 1: Oh,
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
and so at the time for this area people
weren't shipping meats then a whole lot We
didn't know of anyone in the area doing it
The way that we were wanting it to be done
And so my husband and I had just recently
gotten married and my parents approached
us with this hey we I was like, I'm not
sure if you really want to go get land
and are wondering if you're interested
in basically being the labor And
Track 1: Oh, yes.
Yes.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
to sum that up really quick,
how that conversation went
and I had just graduated.
I actually have a degree
in agricultural business.
Which did not necessarily
prepare me for what I'm doing.
But it did give me some experience.
And so I had grown up in ag, but
had never owned our own land.
I had more experience with
horses and things like that.
But, and so did my husband.
So we both were out of the horse industry.
And
so anyways, it really just came from,
it actually came from beef and needing
a source of really good beef for
ourselves and couldn't find it at the
time locally, the way that we were
wanting it, and so we decided to do it
ourselves, that's where it came from.
Track 1: Yep, which is a great way when
I talk to so many people in the grass fed
movement, and, or regenative movement, and
we talk about what led them here, So often
that health, being healthy is the reason,
whether it's a health scare or questioning
what they're doing, so they, for whatever
reasons, that's how they get into it,
which is a very interesting path, I think.
Oh
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
And it just rolled into, and then Once
we were actually creating a decent
product, family and friends figured it
out and then they wanted in and then it
was like, Oh, we really had originally,
we really didn't have a tent to sell on
the scale that we're, we are selling.
And then once it was beef, it was
now we want a better source of pork
because gosh, we really like bacon.
And.
And
then we wanted a better source
of chicken and turkey and eggs.
And so that's how it rolled.
Track 1: So a lot of times when we
think about people that get into
this farming movement, I like to
joke rabbits are a gateway animal.
Sometimes it's another animal,
but Ural's gateway animal
was actually grass fed beef.
Yes.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
or the rabbit, start with
the garden if you really
want to.
We don't recommend that you start
with the biggest undertaking
that you could possibly do.
The infrastructure is in so much
higher and in need and I think only
because my husband and I are out
of the horse industry, so We're
more accustomed to large animals.
We're actually more comfortable
with the larger animals.
That's more
of our, that's more of our niche.
We, that's what we like.
Our sons actually we actually
consider them the poultry
farmers, since they've grown
up with chickens and turkeys, and
they raise most of our poultry.
They have more of a natural So for
them, they do large animal too, but
my husband and I truly
just the large animals.
Track 1: Oh, yes.
So let's jump back to
when you all got the land
and got started.
Because it sounds like you got the land
with the plan of doing grass fed beef.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Yeah, we did.
Track 1: What did you all do to
get that set up and get going?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Yeah, so we actually, my, my dad bought
our, original South Poles, as we do
registered South Poles After doing a lot
of research and just finding something
that was going to be the most efficient
on grass, we felt and be heat tolerant for
where we are in middle Tennessee, we felt
that was the best breed
to move forward with.
And so he actually bought them
before we even had our own land.
So we leased land from a family
friend that's actually like an hour
and a half away from where we landed.
But leased from him for several years.
So we got started before we actually
had our own property.
But when we did buy the property,
there was miles and miles of barbed
wire fence that had to come down and
there was no existing homes here.
There was an, Old shed that had
to come down as it wasn't safe.
There was a barn that we,
the lean twos were caving in.
And so there was a lot of infrastructure
that there wasn't a lot of infrastructure
here, but what was here had to be taken
down or remodeled to suit us for a time.
And then we needed to build a house at
least for my husband and I, because we
were, We needed to be on property to
really fully put in the infrastructure
that was needed and bring the cattle here
and know that they were being safe and
watched after and moved every single day.
Yes, lots of work on the
ground, literally, to do it.
Track 1: Before we talk about that
infrastructure and how you went with
that, When you all purchased the
farm, did you all have a farm name
at that time, or were you still early
enough you didn't have a farm name?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
We didn't, we thought we had something
that we might have wanted to, but
once we got on the land and really
realized, it didn't even have a driveway.
We had to enter through
our neighbor's property.
They were.
Lovely and kind enough.
And we actually bought the land from
their daughter and a long story.
And last year we were actually
able to purchase the, that 30
acres that our neighbor had owned.
She passed and she wanted it.
She wanted us to have it.
Cause she was very passionate
about farming and her children, her
grandchildren were very Gracious, just
anyways we had to go in through our fields
through her driveway, through her fields,
because there's a, there's several,
there's two creeks on the property and you
couldn't get, you physically could not get
up to the property when the water was up.
Track 1: Oh, yes.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
So the farm name came after we built
the driveway and you literally have
to cross the two creeks before they
merge into one on our property.
And we just felt like that was fitting
to honor those creeks because they're
so important to the area.
Track 1: I always think a history
or why someone chose a farm name
is always an interesting journey.
And I'd read some of that on Ural's
blog, so I thought that's a great, or
website, that's a great story how you
came up with the name of your farm.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Yes, thank you.
Track 1: Now when you got there you,
you basically purchased vacant land
because you had, you purchased land
but then you had to tear down or
modify everything that was there.
So basically you're
building from the ground up.
So when you started that journey,
how did you all decide you were
going to do fencing, doing watering?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Yeah,
Track 1: the plan?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
think because we had been leasing
from a family friend, and even
though we didn't fully redo his land,
we did help him in the process of
having our cattle there and wanting
to do intensive rotational grazing.
even on his land which his is an
existing generational a little more
conventional cattle work and but he
wanted to learn, he wanted to learn how
to do the regenerative intensive grazing.
So we even though we weren't there
every day, he was helping us with
the day to day, because it was
such a long drive.
We had an idea already of the few years
from there of what fencing we wanted
to use how we wanted watering set up.
So there's, I've lost count.
I've lost count, but there's over 7,
000 feet of water line on the property
under the ground.
So we have quite the
watering infrastructure.
We have several wells on the
property, one well in particular
goes to all the livestock.
And so we have water hookups in
all of our paddocks so that we
can move them, quick disconnect.
It's like a manhole in
the pasture, go to the
next one, quick disconnect.
And so that really does
help us be more efficient.
And then our fencing is electrified,
but we wanted it electrified
from top to bottom for predator
control and everything like that.
And so it is, it's, we have
perimeter fences set up that way.
But then everything can
be put into slices as
my husband needs it to be so he
can go, Oh, look, we have, we're
in deep, thick spring grass and
they don't need as much, each day.
But if we're running into something
that's a drier part of the season,
he can give them more space.
So we have the ability to.
Still customize each area, each daily
rotation area, but we really did
focus on a great perimeter fence and
efficient watering system because we
knew that would eat up our time and
also really probably at some point
require us to hire an additional
hand and that wasn't something
that we were We thought we could
afford to do and we still don't do.
And we were able to work with our local
soil conservation group because we,
because of the creeks, actually, we're
on this water, we're in this watershed.
And they had a project going that was
trying to get farmers to not allow the
cattle into the creeks to help with
erosion and protect the creeks.
And so we got together with them and
they said, Hey, we'll help you in
laying this out and helping you fund.
Some of this and so that we can get this
set up correctly because these creeks
are so valuable and important to us.
So it was a neat program and we got to
learn a lot through them and vice versa.
I think on Doing intensive
rotational grazing.
Yeah.
Track 1: Very good.
So you all were able to work with
the conservation district and lay
out and plan your water lines.
So was it through a equip program such
that they did some cost sharing with you?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
They did.
Yes, they did help us on the
cost share with that program.
It's doesn't seem to be
in existence anymore.
But because we've reached out to
them or have just been a conversation
with them, but yeah, it was a.
It was a great, it worked out
great for us and it definitely
helped for a big starting farm and when
Track 1: oh yeah.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
are, I don't know, monies I
think may be always a little slim
for farmers, but it's so much
infrastructure required to do it and
to do it efficiently and do it well.
We have put a lot of, we understood
that efficiency in our day to day
work was going to be worth any upfront
cost because in the beginning, both
my father and my husband were still
working off the farm about an hour
from us in Nashville in commercial
Track 1: Oh
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
So we were trying to start a farm, get
our feet wet, understand exactly what
we were doing set the whole thing up.
And they were both still off
farm 40 hours a week working.
And so we had a big priority and
efficiency in our day to day handling
of the animals and, just the little
things of okay I have to carry,
three, five gallon buckets of water
to refill the chicken coop every day.
There's time in that.
And for us, anything to help cut
that time down was important.
Track 1: Yeah, if you have the opportunity
to front load some of those things so
that you can be more efficient in the
future, it's really important thing to do.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Yeah.
It's important.
Track 1: Yeah.
I think for us on the farm we
get busy and we're like, oh,
we got to rush and do this.
And this is a conversation
dad and I have quite often.
Dad's more let's just get it where
it'll work and we'll go with it.
I'm like, let's just do it right so
we don't have to come back to it.
,
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912: We
tend to all be type A's around here.
And so
Track 1: oh
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
we like it all done.
And sometimes that hurts us a little bit.
Cause it's can we just,
Hey, this is good enough.
Let's just go.
But it definitely.
Was worth the weight and the investment.
Yeah.
I think at the time it felt like
everything was going slow or not happening
quick enough, but
to do it all right on the upfront, I
think has really helped us now that
both of my husband and my dad were
able to leave their off farm jobs.
My dad retired, but my husband was
able to leave and farm full time.
That is, that efficiency is what allows
us to diversify ourselves into other
businesses, other incomes on the farm.
That's really what the
value of that is for us.
Track 1: Oh yes, yeah.
Before we move on to some of your
other enterprises, you talked
about your perimeter fence and
you have it all electrified.
So do you go with high tensile?
How many strands?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
There's a, there's some woven
wire and there is high tensile.
Track 1: yeah.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
where we have added on paddocks down the
road if we decided to turn, different
little places into some lots as we've
grown and continue to need more grass.
Yeah, we've done a little bit
of both with it, but mainly
The high tensile.
Track 1: yes.
Now you had cattle and you brought
in your south post that you'd already
started on that journey, but at some
point you expanded into other species.
Talk about that decision to,
to start stacking enterprises.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Yeah as we did begin to sell beef,
it was apparent that our customers
were happy with the quality.
They really loved it.
I love the flavor of it.
And they wanted more and as we looked
at, okay, I think there's a point in
every kind of farm journey where you
decide, okay, am I just a homestead
that sells a little bit off the farm?
And I feed myself or am I a
farm and this is a business and
I'm moving forward that way.
I can almost remember that
moment for us of that decision.
Because it wasn't what we
initially went into it for.
I think at that point, we were
so far in deep money wise.
It was like, yeah, we might as well just.
Let's just keep at this thing.
And so when we really stepped forward
and with confidence, and yes, we
are farmers and yes, we are going
to produce and feed our community.
It was a how else can we feed them?
What is going to benefit them?
What do we need?
Again, we were looking for what
meats we wanted to consume.
Track 1: Oh yeah.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
And so it made more sense to be a place
where they didn't have to go here to
go get beef and here to go get pork
and here to go get chicken and here
to go get their Thanksgiving turkeys.
They could come in one place.
And that's ultimately what helped
us to make the decision to, to
build our store on the farm.
So yeah,
Track 1: So you looked at meats they
were wanting, that you all liked to
enjoy, and one of those choices was pork.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912: yes.
Track 1: So was pork your second
species you added to the farm, or
did you all look at that and say, oh,
we're doing pork, we're doing poultry,
we're doing turkeys all at one time.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
No we actually had a few laying hens
for a while, just for ourselves.
And I think that really what
was like, okay we have some
experience with poultry now.
Let's build on that.
We actually did meat birds, went into
meat birds before we went into pork.
We had a really high demand for chicken.
We were wanting chicken there at the time.
Again, there was no one locally
doing pasture raised chicken.
We weren't eating it
from the store anymore.
And we're like it'd be nice
to have it in our diet again.
And so we went in that direction
first before we added pork pigs.
And did meat, we'd
already had laying hens.
We expand our laying hens and
then went into meat birds and did
a few turkeys as well, one year,
played around with that and pork
was actually the last thing to add.
And the reason was because we were
committed for what we were wanting
and what our customers were wanting.
We were committed to feeding organic feed.
Without sowing corn that was our niche
and that's what we were doing and we just
thought oh my gosh You cannot feed a pig
Track 1: Oh
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
At that price like you can't and
we're gonna have to charge a lot for
this fork And we had again, they were
asking us, please do this business and
I said, okay, fine We will do it, but
you have to understand that it's not
it's going to be An expensive pork.
I think we did I, we did a small number.
We did a small batch of three or
four pigs, probably four years ago.
And all of the meat sold
within three or four weeks.
It was just.
It was just.
gone.
It was just gone.
And they tried it and they loved
it and they raved about it.
And we're like, Oh my gosh,
when are you going to have more?
So we were like, okay
we'll give this a try.
Our concern was our pastures
because our pastures were
really designated to our cattle.
And
so pigs can be hard on the pasture.
We don't have enough extra land
or wooded space that is, we have
some wooded space, but it's wraps.
In the creeks, and so it'll flood and
it's not usually predictable of when
it'll flood and so it'd be really hard
for us to keep electric fences down there
and everything that like they're going
to have to go into our pasture rotation.
It took a little while for
us to figure out how we can
do it and rotate them enough.
That they aren't tearing up the pastures.
We haven't
been perfect at it and we do have some
spots where previous pigs have gone a
little too far, a little too deep, because
if we're running cattle in there to have
these big divots and chants, a hoof,
a broken leg on a cow, we just weren't
sure if that was going to work and,
be worth it.
And it was, and we did it and we doing it.
We move them, they get
moved every two days.
So not every single day, but every
two days and they're really easy.
People are always like, Oh my
gosh, that's gotta be so much work
to move your pigs every two days.
And we're like, they're really smart.
They're easy to train.
They get it.
They like the fresh
grass, they will eat it.
And they'll go after it and they're
excited to move to a fresh piece
of land and just like the cows are.
And so yeah, we, All right, we have
increased our number since but pigs were
the last thing to, to add one because
of the price to feed them at organic, no
soy, no corn and to consideration of our
pastures concern of the quality of our
holding the quality of our pastures, but
they were actually the last thing to, to
Track 1: When, so you're grazing the
same pastures, pigs may be on them
now, and then when the next rotation,
it may be cattle coming through.
They're sharing land base.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
They are.
Yeah, I would say that of our 150
that we have, we really have about.
70 to 80 that are designated into
our intense rotational grazing
system.
It sounds oh, you have 150.
That's great.
But I, it really is probably
just over half or more that that
really is designated to them.
But yeah, they're all the meat birds,
chicken, laying hens, turkeys, pigs, cows.
They're all on the same Rotation of lots,
Track 1: Oh
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
but they may be several days away from
each other or behind, just depending on
what each is needing and in the season,
Track 1: Oh yes.
With your pigs, are you
bringing in feeders, or are
you all farrowing sows as well?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912: we
are currently just bringing in feeders.
We did have breeding
stock here for a while.
But there again, what we found was, is
that we just did not have a place to
designate to them and they are really
hard breeders are really hard on the
Track 1: Oh yeah.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912: and
they want to make, big holes and wallows.
And they really want to, they
don't love moving as frequently.
Especially if you're getting
near farrowing and, she wants to
make a nest and she wants to bed
Track 1: Oh yes.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
And so we just felt like until
we have access to more land, we
needed to let that part of it go.
And.
We are blessed in that we are able
to find piglets feeders from people
who are, doing a pasture raised and
without soy and all those sorts of things.
And so currently we're just
bringing in, the feeders
Track 1: As you look at the pig
enterprise, is it seasonal in
that you get A few feeders in this
year, May or whenever, and you keep
them till they're old enough to be
processed, and then you're waiting
until next year to do another set.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
for us.
No.
So poultry is definitely seasonal for us.
Pork.
No, we're able to do pork
year round, which is what
is actually very valuable to us especially
with our store in that we, we can get them
finished out in about five to six months.
And we can bring two groups in typically
what we do is two groups a year.
So once one has gone to butcher,
we usually have another.
Feeder group lined up to
come in and finish them out.
So we always have pigs
here year round now.
Track 1: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
But that also helps us because a lot of
times we'll line up a group to be finished
in that January, February mark, which
helps us restock something in our store
when we don't have anything because, or.
We usually have some, a good bit of stock
in the store then, but we don't have
poultry restocking then because we don't
do meat birds and turkeys in the winter
Track 1: Yeah.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
for all those reasons.
So yeah, it is actually a
year round for us with pork.
Track 1: Now with your store, are
you having all your beef and pork
marketed through your store, or
are you selling halves and wholes
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Currently everything, yeah,
currently everything is sold
directly through our store.
We don't do halfs or
wholes.
We don't actually have enough
inventory to even offer that.
And what we tell people is it
wouldn't really save you money.
We need to make the same amount.
It took us the two years to get
that beef to finish.
It would, it's the same thing, but
currently everything is sold Get sold
through the store and we're very blessed.
We have an amazing customer base and
you're so loyal and good to us and
kind to us and very supportive of us.
And we sell out pretty quickly when
we restock things we try to keep some
inventory enough inventory, try to produce
as much as we can in the season that it'll
roll over into the winter for our store.
So that the reason we started
that and we didn't go with
the halves and the holes and.
The quarters was that we wanted
to be able to feed everyone.
That was our passion was not
everyone had access to a deep freeze.
So people live in apartments
or condominiums or whatever.
And we wanted to be
able to serve everyone.
We'd like to get to the point where we
can produce more and can offer those
halves and quarters to those that do
have a deep freeze and want to stock up.
But currently we're.
maxed out on our land.
Track 1: Oh, yes.
I want to dive more into that direct
to consumer or to your store and the
way you're storing the meat and stuff.
But before we get there, I'd like to
just touch real quick on your poultry.
So you're doing meat chickens, do you
have a preferred pen you're using?
Are they contained?
Do you have livestock, guardian dogs?
Those are some of the questions
I'm thinking about the pasture
poultry and how's that work for you?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
yeah, it is Ashford poultry is again,
not my husband and I's favorite thing.
Cause they do require more.
They require more infrastructure.
They're not as hardy.
They're a little more finicky.
They're more susceptible to predators.
There's really more involved with them.
They actually need a more complex feed.
We do our own custom rations and work
with a local female to create those.
And so they need more input.
Even though the pig may eat more, The
pig doesn't need as much nutritional
balance as the chicken actually does.
And so the chicken feed actually
costs us more than the pig feed.
And so yeah, there's a lot
of things that, a lot of more
variables in, in pasture poultry.
There was a year where
we thought, this is it.
We're not doing this again.
We are not
doing any more meat birds.
And what we found was when we
were doing Cornish cross which is
just this kind of the go to breed
and for us, we hated raising them.
We did not enjoy it.
They are nasty.
They're just, they don't
seem natural at all.
And so right before we were
like, okay, this is it.
This may be our last season.
Our boys didn't enjoy it.
It was miserable for the whole family.
On a whim, we thought, okay,
let's try one more breed option.
And let's go from there.
And so we switched to what our
hatchery calls Rainbow Rangers,
which is just Cornish Cross
and Freedom Rangers together.
And so we knew we couldn't
do a straight heritage.
We'd played around with some heritage
in the past, and we knew that the
grow out time was just too long.
And the average consumer, they're
looking for the white meat.
That's just part of it.
That's what they know.
It's what's familiar to them.
They're already making a jump
from moving from the grocery store
to buying directly with a farm.
And so to make it look completely
weird and completely different, it
just wasn't, we knew that marketing
wise, that wasn't going to work.
We tried this breed of mix
of Cornish Cross and Freedom
Ranger, and they were great.
We love them.
We haven't gone back since.
We enjoy them more.
Are they?
Act like a Langham, they
have brains power to them.
They take a couple more weeks to
grow out, but for us, that was a win.
That was okay.
We were willing to take that
exchange for having something that
we actually enjoyed as a family.
So we use the mobile.
The mobile chicken house coops
is who we use for our meat
bird and our laying hen coops.
Now we were able to upgrade
those a few years ago.
And that has been life changing.
It is
a huge, it is a huge
investment on the upfront.
They are not cheap, but they last forever.
And your efficiency goes through the roof.
And that was another issue for us
with the meat birds was they were
requiring so much of our time every day
that we were like, this is miserable.
We just cannot keep them.
You had to check on them three or four
times a day to refill waters and feeders,
especially in the dead of summer.
And, it, there's more loss on that end.
It's pretty rare to lose a pig or even a
cow, but it's nothing to go
out there and, 20 Cornish Cross
decided to drown themselves.
In their own water, it was
a very much a, oh my gosh.
It was definitely the number one thing.
We were our was requested from our
customer base and it was the number
one thing we hated growing the most.
And so we just got to the point
of we are either never doing this
again, or we have to fix the breed
and we have to fix our efficiency.
And thankfully that's what
ended up working out for us.
But we still have a
limit as to what we can.
And with our time, with my time and
my husband's time and our boy's time,
we know how many we can raise every
year and that's just the current limit.
It's not enough.
We sell out our customer base once more,
but we've just said this is all we can do.
Track 1: Oh, yeah
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
right now, but yeah
infrastructure with them is huge.
And then I think you
asked about predators.
Track 1: Yes,
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
we actually never had
livestock guardian dogs ever.
Until this January last year
we had an amazing, horrible.
Influx of skunks
Track 1: oh, yes.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
nothing that we've ever
experienced before on the farm.
And we figured out that's
due to development near us.
We've had
So much development happening
around us in the last year or two
that they've lost a place to go
and they found us and we have this
Free buffet,
Track 1: oh,
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
yeah yeah, all you can eat chicken,
skunks are the worst because they
aren't really scavengers when they find
a food source, they will stick to the
food source until they've depleted it.
And
We had to start taking them out
because it was such a problem.
And we still couldn't keep up with them.
They are multiplying
quicker than we could.
Eliminate them.
So we just got two Livestock
Guardian dogs this year.
They're still babies.
They're about eight months
old, but they're huge.
They're massive.
Track 1: Oh,
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
but they're doing their job.
They got their first
skunk a couple months ago.
They just didn't fully get
the memo and they thought they
should play with it while it's
alive.
Track 1: Oh,
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
They thought he came to play and
didn't eliminate him, but yeah.
So we currently have
Livestock Guardian dogs.
Track 1: Oh, yeah, and it
takes them a little while to
figure out their job and to
grow into it Yeah, so so that would
be a great asset as you move forward
One thing with the Rainbow Rangers that
you're using.
Did you notice a taste
difference between Rainbow Raid
Rangers and the Cornish cross?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Yes, it improved greatly.
We actually found improvement and our
customers noticed the improvement of it.
They forage more
and they forage more than
the Cornish Cross will.
The Cornish Cross aren't
really bred for that.
And so adding in that heritage to it,
they actually understood foraging.
And so we have way more yellow content
on, we get that nice yellow fat content
that you look for on your grass fed beef.
We get that on the chicken now.
And so the flavor.
So we didn't change feeds, we
Same, same setup, still rotating.
They, or they get moved in their coops
two to three times a day to fresh grass.
And so nothing else changed, but the
breed and huge improvement flavor.
Then the Cornish cross, at least for me.
We thought, and that's
what our customer says.
They always, it's so funny when
we get people in and they're
like, it's not watery or spongy.
And I'm like, Oh, chicken shouldn't be.
That's not normal.
So yeah they love the flavor
and the texture of it actually.
Track 1: Wonderful.
A few years ago, I've mentioned this
in past episodes, but a few years
ago, I tried one batch of pastured
poultry, and I did corny scruffs.
And we got them, I got them processed
and the goal was we were going to try
them before we even tried to marketing.
We just grew a small set to see how
they'd go, see if the wife liked them.
And she's I don't like it.
It doesn't, She didn't enjoy it,
so we have not grown any more.
But, I do think there's a
market there in some ways.
I worry about the price point, but
even if I just grew for myself, I
would be happy doing that but not if my
wife says no, I don't like this meat.
So I'm encouraged by hearing that, so
maybe I need to take another look at that.
That may be something I try in the future.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Yeah, we have loved love that breed.
In fact, we just get it
mixed males and females.
Um, and in 10 weeks we were able
to get some that are well over five
pounds, that five to seven pound mark.
We typically keep whole ones in the
three and a half to four and a half
pound range, because that's what our
customer base tends to like more.
They're a little more
intimidated by a five.
Five and a half pound whole chicken.
So those
bigger birds are usually
what goes to cut ups.
So we do offer a bonus
skinless chicken breasts, thighs,
wings, those sorts of things.
We can't keep our, the
chicken breast in stock.
And they're expensive because
they're expensive for us to produce.
But yet people are tickled
to get them and pay for them.
And they just, they've made that a
priority and they're In their budget,
which we appreciate that that, that's
where they've chosen to spend their money.
But yeah, it's definitely eat birds, man.
So love and hate relationship there.
Track 1: Oh, yes.
Now one thing you all made a
commitment to from the get go was using
organic feeds without soy and corn.
Have you had any trouble
sourcing that feed?
Or any issues with that?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Originally we were having to
bring it in from Virginia.
That was the only person
doing it was out that way.
And so for a long time, we had to have
it shipped in during the pandemic.
Shipping got so outrageous that we were
like, this is just not obtainable anymore.
So we began to look at other options
and we're able to find a feed
mill, not too terribly far from us
a couple of hours that delivered,
but also did custom ration mixes.
And so I knew what I
wanted.
And so I worked with a nutritionist
to develop exactly what we wanted
and that's been huge for us.
We are blessed that we do have
some resources in the area for.
Custom feed mills and to be able to
get it organic and without soy or corn.
The feed mill we're
currently using is complete.
It's a fully organic feed mill.
They won't bring anything
that's not organic
in.
So that's all they do.
And then they'll do custom rations
without the corn and the soy.
As long as you work with a
nutritionist to get the ration correct.
And so that's what we've done.
And I've been very blessed to have.
Any option at all, but I know for others
in other parts of the country it's just
not an option for them by any means.
And I can.
I can imagine that being difficult.
Track 1: Oh, yes.
And with that, is, are you finding
that organic feed without corn or soy
a big selling point to your consumers?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
It is, it, first of all, it was
what we personally were wanting just
for our own health journey.
And then our customer base has, most of
them have educated themselves and they
are either we have a lot of young families
that are really educating themselves,
and they are, they, I think they are
tired of seeing people being sick, and so
they've educated themselves, and
so for them that's important.
Others, we have other people who have
educated themselves because they are
sick, or they've, or in remission, or
they are, whatever it may be they're
trying to heal their bodies, and so that's
where It's important to them, but we've
also served several people who have soy
allergies or corn allergies and they
cannot consume eggs, beef,
chicken, pork, turkey.
We've served several that It's been life
changing for them or for their children.
We see a lot of children that have
food allergies and a lot of times they
think their child is allergic to eggs.
And that's not the case for
everyone, but for a lot of them,
their child or themselves aren't
actually allergic to the egg.
They can have our eggs and then they find
out it's really a soy or a corn allergy,
and it is getting transmitted.
It is transferring into the egg and the
meat and it's been really neat to hear
their testimonies and just as they've
walked through our store doors of how life
changing it's been for them to be able to
feed their family that,
Track 1: very good.
One other thing before we get
to the overgrazing section.
You're selling through your
farm store, you're selling cuts.
How do you, it's not
really a how question.
Maybe it is.
I'm just curious about your freezer
storage for your farm store.
How much do you have and
how that works for you?
Is that something you grew into?
I don't even know where I'm
going with the question.
I'm just rambling
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
I think I gotcha.
Because it definitely is a challenge and
no, we don't have enough freezer space.
I don't think you can ever
have enough freezer space.
And it is a challenge.
One of the things that helps
us overcome that is our beef is
we we have our beef butchered.
We have, a couple going every month.
So
Instead of taking the whole
lot for the year end, we take
the whole lot for the year end.
And then I have to store all of that.
We're doing just a couple
every month or whatever it is.
So it, a lot of times it's turning
over, it's turning over pretty quickly.
For the most part, we typically can sell
out of what we have before we restock the
next, or we're pretty,
pretty windled down.
So we have a huge, like five
door glass freezer in our store,
which is an amazing blessing.
We have currently, we wish we had gotten
it sooner, but we have I think we've
had it for about three or four years
now, a freezer trailer that is very
helpful for us getting to and from,
getting stuff back from the butcher,
but also we can use it as our overflow.
And then there are just a ton of
deep freezers all over the property.
Track 1: Oh,
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
We would love a walk in freezer.
But at the same time, we were just having
this conversation earlier this year.
We're not sure that the investment
in it and then paying for the
electric of it really makes sense.
Track 1: Oh,
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
So thankfully, we're able to sell our
inventory and keep it pretty rolled
over where we get a little tight on our
storage is at the end of the season.
October, November, we're taking in the
last batches of everything, the last.
Poultry, the turkeys and actually
beef because our beef butcher
shuts down December, January,
and February for deer season.
And so we have to take a lot more
in, in those months.
And so we're usually a little
over full and putting stuff
in freezers wherever we can.
But for the most part, we've been
able to just sell as we harvest
Yeah, there's freezers everywhere.
Track 1: Oh, yeah.
Wonderful, Elizabeth.
You all have a lot going on
there and that kind of feeds
into our overgrazing section.
So it's time we move into our overgrazing
sections where we take a deeper dive or
a look at something about your operation.
And today we're going to talk a little
bit about diversity in your business.
So I'll let you start that conversation.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Okay.
Thank you.
Yes, diversification in
our business has been huge.
Farming is expensive and farming is
very challenging to actually make a
profit that can fully sustain even.
One family household.
That is the reality of it for most
of us, I think and so therefore
we knew from the get go that we
were going to need to diversify.
You see this.
If you really, you see this with, Joel
Salatin, Greg Judy they're making extra
income through YouTube or writing books
or speaking, all those things, right?
That's not a bad thing.
That's great.
They found their thing to
help add value to their family and to
their business and to their farm to keep
the farm going and be more profitable.
So those are not an option for us
to go out and not everybody can
be a speaker or a book writer.
You know that's pretty flooded
area there.
We didn't really plan
some of our businesses.
They just happened but one that has
been incredibly beneficial for us and
actually helped us get our, my husband
home full time was our RV sites.
And so we have a handful
of really premium RV sites.
It also opens us up to
agritourism, which we think is
really important for our state.
As well as for our farm and, but we wanted
to show agritourism on a different level.
In this area, agritourism traditionally
has really just been that pumpkin
patch kind of thing that seasonal
pumpkin patch, which are great.
We, we love those.
Those are amazing.
But we really were passionate about.
One, we built our farm store so that the
consumer was actually coming to the farm.
Love farmer's markets.
That's a great resource
for a lot of farms.
But for us, we didn't want you
to just take our word at the
booth at the farmer's market.
We wanted you to
actually have an opportunity
to come out to the farm.
Let your children see a chicken.
Let your child see a cow poop.
They think that's hilarious, but they've
never seen an animal poop sometimes,
it's just those sort of things.
And once we opened our store, we it was
nerve wracking to open our farm to the
public, but at the same times, once we
did it, it was really refreshing to see.
The consumer have a chance
to see the farm up close.
And so once we got that passion from
our store, we began to have this
passion for hosting and people actually
spending the night here and again,
it felt awkward at first but once
we've gotten into it, it feels very
natural and we love having people here.
So they're coming from all over.
Some of them are staying with
this extended time periods, like
we do monthly for some people
and then some of them are just nightly
or here for a week or here for a.
Family vacation or coming to
the area for family or for an
event or something like that.
And it's different because
they're actually getting
to stay on a working farm.
And so they're actually getting to
see us run around and move cattle
and, move the chickens and gather
the eggs and all those things.
And so that was, it became very a
passion for us that then actually turned
into something that carried a profit.
So it
has.
It's more passive income.
It has much less overhead
and less daily management.
So it's something that we can
add into the farm because the
farm is so time consuming.
Track 1: Oh, yeah.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
So it's an income that
actually works with the farm.
And back then remote jobs were not
working remotely were, was not.
Nearly as popular as it is now.
And if that's an option for people, we're
like, Hey, keep that remote job as long
as you can work at home from the
farm, take your lunch break, go move
the animals, come back and do that.
Enjoy that flexibility and that
extra income for as long as you can.
Because you need it on the farm.
So the Arvin sites were really what
launched us into hosting and lodging.
And then we added on a campsite with
some cabins that's open 3 season, and
then we're currently in the next week
or 2, finishing our first Airbnb house
On the additional property that we've,
Purchased.
And so because we have a lot of
people that want to stay with us year
round, and maybe they don't own an RV.
And so this will be a, an option
for them as well for us to do.
So it definitely adds value
to a farming operation.
Track 1: your guests are looking for
where they want to go, do you find
it being on a working farm is a major
part of that attraction for them?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
I think for some, it's also
really interesting is that some
have an idea or stigmatism of
what a farm is in their head.
And so
They're thinking it's going to be smelly.
It's going to be dirty.
It's going to be stinky.
And we're definitely not that.
We take a lot of pride in keeping
it clean and picked up and
lovely and comfortable for them.
And so it's nice to see that
be broken off of people.
It's this is what a should look like.
It should be gross.
It should be dirty.
It should be
stinky.
And Most of the time they don't
even know because the way we.
run our poultry that, there's
anywhere from five to 600 meepers
here to, chickens here at a time.
And it doesn't smell, they're used
to, to a chicken house smelling.
And It's been really
interesting to see that kind of.
Break off.
But yeah, we have people that seek
out and then those that there's even
groups that seek us out to stay with us
because we're regenerative and they want
to learn more about that or they want
to, they're interested in, they're
interested in homesteading or they're
interested in starting their own farm.
And so they've come and stayed
with us because of that interest.
Okay.
Track 1: Very good.
I find that lodging on
the farm very interesting.
I think about it even here.
They recently announced a theme park
coming in, what, 30 miles from me?
Which I think it could be a potential.
I'm not sure everyone else in my
family agrees with me, but I do
think that's an interesting aspect.
Maybe we need to explore more.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Yeah, it's a really deep concept.
You have to enjoy hosting.
You have to enjoy that.
And we were nervous if we would
or not, but the nice thing about a
camp spot in the RV spots, or even
an Airbnb house is that you can
shut it down at any time you want.
You can take a pause if you need
to we don't, we go year round.
But it is nice to know
in the back of your head.
I can, if I just hate this.
I can stop this, I can stop.
So we usually advise people who
are interested in adding that to
their farm, especially the Arby's
is to not make any investment in it.
On the front end.
So just start with we actually are
part of Harvest Host which is a program
that you don't actually make money.
The guest doesn't pay you
for their nightly stay.
They get 1 night for free with
their membership with Harvest Host.
But they're supposed to come buy
some of your farm products, but it's
a great way without any overhead.
To start and you can,
they're just boondocking.
So they're not getting any hookups.
So they
can come in, they can come
in without any hookups.
You can park them in a level.
Nicely mowed grass area or gravel
area, and you can experience it
and see if you like it before you
decide to add in those hookups,
the electric, the water, the sewer,
if you're going to do gravel, or
if you're going to do concrete or
whatever, you can start and experience
it before you make that decision.
investment into it and onto your property.
So I usually advise people to, to
start with that and make sure you
like hosting on your property.
Track 1: Elizabeth, I
hadn't even heard of that.
That is an excellent idea for
someone looking at this thinking,
Maybe, will it work here?
Will it not?
To tip their toes into the water and see
how it goes before they spend any money
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912: Yes.
Always,
save your money, save the
money before you wait.
Farming is too expensive.
You're always got money to spend.
So when you're adding anything
value added, we highly recommend
you dip your toes into it some way.
Without putting any money into it.
Just your time, just a little
bit of your time and try it
out, because if you don't like it,
you've made an investment in something
that you're just, it's not gonna be
useful for you and pay itself back.
Track 1: Wonderful advice there and really
enjoyed that about your diversification
of your business plan there.
And for our Grazing Grass Insiders
we will have bonus content.
We're going to talk more about your on
farm kitchen or commercial kitchen you
have available for the bonus segment.
But it's now time for us to move
to our famous four questions.
Same four questions we
ask of all of our guests.
Elizabeth, our first question
is what is your favorite grazing
grass related book or resource?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
In the beginning, we read them all,
I think, and I highly recommend,
even if they're 20, 30 years old
that you pull out all of the books.
Of course we read through all of Joel
Salatin's books, like everyone does.
We do the Greg Judy videos.
We've looked at his stuff.
We did some in person, any
in person workshops we could.
And back then there weren't
as many as there is now.
And of course, YouTube is now
available for everyone and everything.
But we did read through.
Those I think one of my favorite
that actually is not necessarily
on grazing and it's very not really
heard of, but Pat Colby was a genius
in her day, I think, and it's hard to
get her books, but she has a natural
approach, healing, like health books for
cattle and every animal you can think of,
actually, she has a horse one, she has a
farm one but so much of what she has in
there, she's actually already passed away.
But so much of what she has in there is.
It's my go to actually.
If we have any kind of
animal problem, we try to do things
without prescriptions, without
antibiotics, without medications.
And so she's, that's my go to book.
And usually it's quite interesting.
You can find the problem and it's
usually 90 percent of the time directly
linked to a mineral deficiency.
And so I really highly recommend her books
for any farmer that's raising livestock.
Track 1: Excellent suggestion there.
I'm not familiar with it.
I do think I've seen that title or
variation of that title somewhere, but
that brings me to another question before
we go to our second Famous Four question.
How are you managing feeding
minerals to your cattle?
Do you have a certain type you like
to use or are you doing free choice?
How are you doing your mineral
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
We try to keep it pretty simple.
In fact.
I, we've more and more through
the years, we've actually leaned.
Pat Colby has a salt lick recipe in her
book.
It's a basic, she calls it a basic lick.
It is our go to now.
And because I'm very
just I like common sense.
If it makes sense, let's just do it.
And so
I think sometimes we over complicate it.
And one thing that we've always
done from the get go that has
not changed is offer kelp.
We always offer
kelp.
So we use just the mineral
feeder, like the round ones with
the big rubber lid on the top.
My husband puts, he builds skids
for them and hooks a chain to them.
So they're fully movable in all
of our, they go with the cows.
Except for our cattle it's kelp
and that is because that's an
iodine source and actually legumes
will pull iodine out of the body.
And so a lot of times.
Your problems will just be from, they
need to be replenished with iodine.
So we always have kelp access to them.
They always have that access.
And then we use dolomite, which is a
calcium magnesium combo from limestone.
And that is going to ward off mastitis.
So they have calcium, they have the
proper calcium and magnesium balance.
My status isn't an issue.
And then actually copper sulfate.
So it's not dangerous
when it's copper sulfate.
But it is dangerous when
it's other types of copper.
So we use
that and we use a sulfur dust and we
just mix those here ourselves based
on kind of the rations that she's, she
gives in that, in one, in her cattle
book but we've really had great
success and balance with that
and try to keep it simple.
Try to not overdo.
It can be easy to get wound into that.
And of course they have access to a salt.
We use Redmond's.
We like Redmond's
cattle salt.
And they get some DE,
some Dimateous Earth.
And yeah that's pretty much it.
But yeah, we really like Pat's
recommendation in her books.
Track 1: Oh, very good.
Very good.
Our second question.
What is your favorite tool for the farm?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
So this is going to sound probably a
little silly, but honest to goodness, I
don't think goodness gracious, there's
so many, it's really hard to pick.
I suppose
It really is.
because you're like, Oh, we couldn't
do this today without this or this.
Obviously our reels are, your reels
are always necessary to cut those
big lots into smaller chunks for the
animals.
Also.
What's silly is our ATVs, like
we have a couple of them and they
are what we can Pull the mineral
feeders up and because we're
moving our waters up every day
So water and mineral feeders, but
also it's how we use our move all
of those meat burr coupes as well.
So And then we love those coupes too.
So there's a lot There's
Track 1: There
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
a lot.
It's hard to
pick one for sure.
But yeah, they're all
really Probably good.
Track 1: I can see the value
in everything you mentioned.
I was recently on the
Working Cows podcast.
Of course, by the time this one comes out,
that's going to be a month and a half ago.
But, he asked me that.
And I'm like I really hate to answer
this because I'm like a real polywire.
I really need those things,
it's just interesting always.
Elizabeth, our third question
is, What would you tell
someone just getting started?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
I would say start small, but aim big.
Track 1: I like that advice.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
know that you can get big and you
can diversify, but start small.
It's hard to start with a little
overhead as you can and upfront costs
as you can, but try the best you can.
But yeah, I would say
start small, but aim big.
You can do it, but you
really have got to master.
Your skills, you are learning those
farming skills and you need to read
every book and every YouTube and
all the workshops that you can.
And let me just tell you,
you're never done learning.
We aren't done learning.
We figure we're not done
until the day we die.
We will never be a master farmer.
I don't think it exists because this
thing is always changing and it's
always throwing you a new challenge.
So you gotta love challenges for sure.
And be resilient.
But start small, aim big.
Track 1: Excellent advice
there, and I love that.
Start small, aim big.
Very good.
And lastly, Elizabeth.
Where can others find out more about you?
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Yeah, absolutely.
So our website is a great place
to learn the most about us.
That's crossingcreeks.
com.
There's a lot of information
there, website, but also the blog.
And you can find our social
media links there too.
We are on Instagram and Facebook as well.
And we do carry a small YouTube channel.
We, we put videos there that are linked
into our email newsletter for those that
aren't on social media can still see.
Our different operations, what we're
doing, what we're adding and our email
newsletter is really the place to be.
Everyone loves those.
And those are a weekly email newsletter.
You can sign up on our website.
Track 1: Very good.
We will make sure we put
those links in our show notes.
And Elizabeth we appreciate you
coming on and sharing with us today.
squadcaster-152e_1_03-29-2024_100912:
Thank you so much for having us.
Cal: I really hope you
enjoyed today's conversation.
I know I did.
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